No more fantasies – fiction-holes – to bury our heads in, in these days of our reality, as biblical Armageddon nears, and only the power of Christ's presence can sustain us in that furnace of purification.
Thanks for the comment, Steve. Seems to me that you misunderstand the purpose of fantasy — fantasy is speculative philosophy, fundamentally. Have you read On Fairy Stories? They're fundamentally about the really real, particularly when so much of nonfiction is filled with lies:
Actually your referenced book of Revelation comes to mind, when we're talking about fantasies — fiction-holes — to bury our heads in for the sake of reality. The point of apocalyptic archetypes is to "unveil" the present empires and all epic dystopias are predicated on that assumption.
I believe we met at a Redeemer Writers gathering in NYC over a decade ago. And I’ve lightly followed you up through the years. It’s amazing how prolific you are in your writing, and how well you are doing as a writer.
Thanks for the link to Tolkien’s On Fairy Stories – I’m not sure I still have the book that was in (I’ve had to thin down my library by at least half before moving to where I am now – Cyprus, in the Mediterranean), though I wouldn’t have knowingly given that one away! Yes, I’ve read it. I wrote on Tolkien recently: https://apocalypsefield.substack.com/p/jrr-tolkien-is-the-greatest-poet
It’s not at all that I don’t like fantasy or sci fi – I LOVE them – it’s only that the time for them is past. I don’t know if you’re much into eschatology (end times thought), but it bears on this. No doubt you are aware of the darkening of our times. Any ideas on why that is? Or what is to come? The Presbyterian / Reformed, which I am, mostly hold to what is called the Amillennial school of thought, or “Modified Idealist”.
RE my “Armageddon” reference to Revelation – what do you think Armageddon actually refers to? Is it only “to ‘unveil’ the present empires and all epic dystopias”? What if that which is to be unveiled by the biblical term is the “Mother” of all dystopias and the final horrific battle of evil against Christ, His people, and His kingdom – at the very end of the age before the resurrection, final judgment of the blessed and the damned, and before eternity proper comes to pass for us all?
You seem to think we have a lot more time before that comes to pass.
The first book I wrote, A Great and Terrible Love: A Visionary Journey from Woodstock’s Sorceries to God’s Paradise, had this blurb on the back cover (Amazon has it in paperback; I have free digital copies all over the internet) :
In the sixties we were a joyous people, thinking we had found illumination, sacred friendship in community, and new spiritual hope for humankind
Half a century later – a dawning awareness of the realities of our time, politically, culturally, spiritually – we knew we were in something else, way over our heads
Setting forth from Woodstock on pilgrimage to Celestial City of the age to come, en route we found ourselves in whore Babylon amid the dread colossi of Revelation
How stand in such approaching storms, how live amid so much death, stay human amid such evil? If one finds the answer hold it fast come what may!
We have come to this: the fabled end of the world, what seers have called Armageddon, and then Judgment. This a *true* tale of Coming to Terms with it all.
-----
Bring together again the telling of a tale and the living voice.
I’m close to publishing a much smaller edition follow-up, to fine-tune how much closer we are to the end (well aware that we are not to set dates of any kind), yet the Lord does tell us we should discern the times we are in.
It’s kind of difficult writing where one cannot format properly. Email is much better: <apocalypsefield@substack.com> . Please write if you care to.
Thanks Steve — yes I remember doing a panel with several writers, though I don't remember the topic. I do remember meeting Kendall (co-author here) there.
Thanks for the encouragement.
That you think the time for them is past tells me that we have qualitatively different ideas as to what they actually are: I believe they're a fundamentally contemplative art that intersects — sometimes perfectly — the intellectual philosophy with the manual arts through the ultimate form of creative writing. It's the cross section of the arts and sciences. Because of this, I cannot think of a world in which they will be unnecessary or, indeed, fundamental. Fantasies with my bride are how we, for instance, ended up in London: we dream of other worlds and other worlds come to be.
I think empires rise and fall in cycles, we simply happen to be living through something akin to what Augustine lived through — this time through an imperial cult that has merged itself to a kind of aesthetic brutalistic version (though not a doctrinal version) of Christianity, not unlike the Vichy bishops.
As for amillennals — the one I know who isn't crazy (many of them are quite sane when compared to all other millennial positions, but the one I know) is Dr. Shane J. Wood of University of Edinburgh:
I think speculation beyond that^ is foolish, frankly, and can lead to the exact kind of nationalism (or isolationism) we're seeing play out. I am against fundamentalism in any form.
The sixties had their issues. Women, for instance, couldn't have credit until 1974.
I spent a good bit of time listening to / watching Shane Wood’s teaching on Revelation (thanks for the heads-up on him). He may be amil (I don’t know), though not in accord with the current literature – then I am not quite either with the view I have of psychedelics (grass included) being the sorcery Revelation (and Galatians) warn against.
Dr. Wood seems to think (per his lecture on Rev 14:14-17:6) the “Armageddon” of Rev 16:16 is a non-battle, and that the Lord returns and destroys the wicked before it even starts. That’s a dangerous misunderstanding, notwithstanding his brilliance.
If he is the only amil you “know who isn't crazy” then you likely are unfamiliar with the scholars and commentators Dennis E. Johnson, G.K. Beale, and Wm. Hendriksen – cogent, sober, and learned men, with profound insight into the final prophecy that Revelation is.
I appreciate what you say about the depth and importance of the fantasy genre! As a Londoner now – and still a young man – you may live to see what is to befall the U.S. all too soon. At almost 83 and frail of health I likely won’t (though the Lord could keep me going beyond what I think!).
There comes a point when reality becomes so intense fantasy will disappear.
I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all. I think it's a pretty clear literary contextual reading of what comes to pass in the text. The battle literally ends before it begins.
When I said “I like the way you think”, I was in part referring to your remark elsewhere that you viewed those who disagreed with you as “discussion partners”. I thought that was extremely gracious, and a gentle yet unspoken (and unmeant) rebuke to my own manner at times. I've been deeply edified by that.
The “contextual reading of what comes to pass in the text” – are you aware of the various textual contexts regarding the final battle, of which you said, “The battle literally ends before it begins”?
To give you two (and there are more) examples:
Revelation 11:7-11: “And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.”
These witnessing saints were brutally killed – in this cameo of the final battle.
Then, Zechariah 14:1-3, the prophet also talking of the final battle:
“Watch, for the day of the LORD is coming when your possessions will be plundered right in front of you! I will gather all the nations to fight against Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the population will be taken into captivity, and the rest will be left among the ruins of the city.
“Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as he has fought in times past.”
The apocalyptic genre often uses a "symbolic vocabulary" to depict the realities it speaks of.
I couldn't find any of your poetry that wasn't for sale. Nothing of mine is for sale (the Amazon book costs only what they charge for publishing it – I get no royalties). Here's a digital book of poems (I published it in hardcopy myself), THE WRITING ON THE WALL. bit.ly/2MyBmrR
Just wanted to say, I took a class on Tolkien in college and reading On Fairy Stories changed both my worldview on life and on fantasy. And you're right. Modern fantasy is fun and cool in its storytelling and ~realism~, but at some point, we lose the point of Tolkien's fantasy, of imagining a better world rather than reimagining our rather poor one. I thought it was interesting that you describe it as beyond the fourth age, rather than a return to the end of the third and the War of the Ring. We have indeed moved past the pastoral simplicity of the hobbits and nobility of Men, and going back to that, while it seems idyllic, is futile -- we are a different society, in a different time, and a different place globally. But there is always, always a possibility that goodness - in whatever form - will prevail. It reminds me of the concept of the Kali Yuga in Hinduism -- an era of darkness after three previous eras of slowly eroding goodness (sound familiar?) that will ultimately end the world as we know it, but then and only then can a new world be born. If I were to write fantasy, that's what I would want it to be. I hope (because, of course, there's always hope) to see a rise in what you said -- bylines of empathy, wisdom, and courage, stories that no longer feel it necessary to expose the worst of the world (a necessary endeavor certainly 20 years ago, but only demoralizing at this point) but instead reimagine it for the better.
Hey thanks for the comment, Meia. It's a wonderful piece on multiple fronts — it's really a Hegelian synthesis of both modernism and fantasy in a way that neither literary fiction nor modern fantasy fully appreciate. It truly feels as if it came from another world entirely when you look at the modern landscape of fiction, generally (some pockets exist in self-published or small press sectors and Sanderson's doing something interesting that most folks don't yet fully appreciate).
Return is insufficient as the future move must entail our experience now. Otherwise we cease to be entirely. We can't go back, but what we can do is purify our false selves that our true selves might be made manifest. So yes, the "fourth" age would be that dark age of men. But a fifth?
Do you have the myth handy for that piece on Hinduism?
And what of your own fantasy: what are you working on?
I've just started getting into Sanderson's works, and I am already impressed with how in-depth the entire world, let alone universe, is! I'm definitely curious to see more. As for the Kali Yuga stuff, I don't think there's a single source, but it's referenced multiple times in different texts like the Vedas and Mahabharata -- this seems like a good source: https://medium.com/@aresynshaw.work/the-4-yugas-the-cosmic-ages-of-the-world-1f2f7fa0eb74
And as for my own fantasy...honestly, nothing concrete yet! I sat down and made a map a few months ago via dropping rice randomly on a piece of poster paper. We'll see where it goes, but I definitely don't want to do something in the grimdark realm. Unfortunately balancing the line between realistic and grim, as well as optimistic versus naive, seems very daunting! How about yourself?
It's certainly a taste thing. I know good friends who love Martin and dislike Sanderson — I do think Martin writes better prose, better scenes, better subtlety of things often missed the first go around. So some of it's a taste thing on that front. Here I was talking predominantly about the philosophy undergirding the work — and I don't know that I agree entirely with Sanderson either, but it's a breath of fresh air, for sure.
Well he's Mormon which... I mean, I'm not, but there are certainly worse philosophies out there. And as Gnostic as it can be at times, our society could use a Gnostic correction in a way.
He also seems to be pulling from something like The Discarded Image. So I'm keeping an eye on that.
Awesome, have fun with it. Happy to send you past books if you're unfamiliar.
No more fantasies – fiction-holes – to bury our heads in, in these days of our reality, as biblical Armageddon nears, and only the power of Christ's presence can sustain us in that furnace of purification.
Thanks for the comment, Steve. Seems to me that you misunderstand the purpose of fantasy — fantasy is speculative philosophy, fundamentally. Have you read On Fairy Stories? They're fundamentally about the really real, particularly when so much of nonfiction is filled with lies:
• https://coolcalvary.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/on-fairy-stories1.pdf
Actually your referenced book of Revelation comes to mind, when we're talking about fantasies — fiction-holes — to bury our heads in for the sake of reality. The point of apocalyptic archetypes is to "unveil" the present empires and all epic dystopias are predicated on that assumption.
Hello Lancelot!
I believe we met at a Redeemer Writers gathering in NYC over a decade ago. And I’ve lightly followed you up through the years. It’s amazing how prolific you are in your writing, and how well you are doing as a writer.
Thanks for the link to Tolkien’s On Fairy Stories – I’m not sure I still have the book that was in (I’ve had to thin down my library by at least half before moving to where I am now – Cyprus, in the Mediterranean), though I wouldn’t have knowingly given that one away! Yes, I’ve read it. I wrote on Tolkien recently: https://apocalypsefield.substack.com/p/jrr-tolkien-is-the-greatest-poet
It’s not at all that I don’t like fantasy or sci fi – I LOVE them – it’s only that the time for them is past. I don’t know if you’re much into eschatology (end times thought), but it bears on this. No doubt you are aware of the darkening of our times. Any ideas on why that is? Or what is to come? The Presbyterian / Reformed, which I am, mostly hold to what is called the Amillennial school of thought, or “Modified Idealist”.
RE my “Armageddon” reference to Revelation – what do you think Armageddon actually refers to? Is it only “to ‘unveil’ the present empires and all epic dystopias”? What if that which is to be unveiled by the biblical term is the “Mother” of all dystopias and the final horrific battle of evil against Christ, His people, and His kingdom – at the very end of the age before the resurrection, final judgment of the blessed and the damned, and before eternity proper comes to pass for us all?
You seem to think we have a lot more time before that comes to pass.
The first book I wrote, A Great and Terrible Love: A Visionary Journey from Woodstock’s Sorceries to God’s Paradise, had this blurb on the back cover (Amazon has it in paperback; I have free digital copies all over the internet) :
In the sixties we were a joyous people, thinking we had found illumination, sacred friendship in community, and new spiritual hope for humankind
Half a century later – a dawning awareness of the realities of our time, politically, culturally, spiritually – we knew we were in something else, way over our heads
Setting forth from Woodstock on pilgrimage to Celestial City of the age to come, en route we found ourselves in whore Babylon amid the dread colossi of Revelation
How stand in such approaching storms, how live amid so much death, stay human amid such evil? If one finds the answer hold it fast come what may!
We have come to this: the fabled end of the world, what seers have called Armageddon, and then Judgment. This a *true* tale of Coming to Terms with it all.
-----
Bring together again the telling of a tale and the living voice.
Be a teller of great tales, even the darkest.
–Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Poetry As Insurgent Art
https://bit.ly/4jKAv2X
_______
I’m close to publishing a much smaller edition follow-up, to fine-tune how much closer we are to the end (well aware that we are not to set dates of any kind), yet the Lord does tell us we should discern the times we are in.
It’s kind of difficult writing where one cannot format properly. Email is much better: <apocalypsefield@substack.com> . Please write if you care to.
Steve
Thanks Steve — yes I remember doing a panel with several writers, though I don't remember the topic. I do remember meeting Kendall (co-author here) there.
Thanks for the encouragement.
That you think the time for them is past tells me that we have qualitatively different ideas as to what they actually are: I believe they're a fundamentally contemplative art that intersects — sometimes perfectly — the intellectual philosophy with the manual arts through the ultimate form of creative writing. It's the cross section of the arts and sciences. Because of this, I cannot think of a world in which they will be unnecessary or, indeed, fundamental. Fantasies with my bride are how we, for instance, ended up in London: we dream of other worlds and other worlds come to be.
I think empires rise and fall in cycles, we simply happen to be living through something akin to what Augustine lived through — this time through an imperial cult that has merged itself to a kind of aesthetic brutalistic version (though not a doctrinal version) of Christianity, not unlike the Vichy bishops.
As for amillennals — the one I know who isn't crazy (many of them are quite sane when compared to all other millennial positions, but the one I know) is Dr. Shane J. Wood of University of Edinburgh:
https://www.shanejwood.com/the-book-of-revelation/
I think speculation beyond that^ is foolish, frankly, and can lead to the exact kind of nationalism (or isolationism) we're seeing play out. I am against fundamentalism in any form.
The sixties had their issues. Women, for instance, couldn't have credit until 1974.
Hello Lancelot,
I spent a good bit of time listening to / watching Shane Wood’s teaching on Revelation (thanks for the heads-up on him). He may be amil (I don’t know), though not in accord with the current literature – then I am not quite either with the view I have of psychedelics (grass included) being the sorcery Revelation (and Galatians) warn against.
Dr. Wood seems to think (per his lecture on Rev 14:14-17:6) the “Armageddon” of Rev 16:16 is a non-battle, and that the Lord returns and destroys the wicked before it even starts. That’s a dangerous misunderstanding, notwithstanding his brilliance.
If he is the only amil you “know who isn't crazy” then you likely are unfamiliar with the scholars and commentators Dennis E. Johnson, G.K. Beale, and Wm. Hendriksen – cogent, sober, and learned men, with profound insight into the final prophecy that Revelation is.
I appreciate what you say about the depth and importance of the fantasy genre! As a Londoner now – and still a young man – you may live to see what is to befall the U.S. all too soon. At almost 83 and frail of health I likely won’t (though the Lord could keep me going beyond what I think!).
There comes a point when reality becomes so intense fantasy will disappear.
I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all. I think it's a pretty clear literary contextual reading of what comes to pass in the text. The battle literally ends before it begins.
Hello yet again, Lancelot,
In defense of non-fiction vision:
Back cover of a book (a second in the works) : bit.ly/4jKAv2X
Poem: IGNORING PROPHECY: bit.ly/41O3AUh
Another: HIS BRIDE: bit.ly/4kpTLmK
Where can I see some of your poetry? You are so prolific I don't know where to start.
Hello again Lancelot,
When I said “I like the way you think”, I was in part referring to your remark elsewhere that you viewed those who disagreed with you as “discussion partners”. I thought that was extremely gracious, and a gentle yet unspoken (and unmeant) rebuke to my own manner at times. I've been deeply edified by that.
The “contextual reading of what comes to pass in the text” – are you aware of the various textual contexts regarding the final battle, of which you said, “The battle literally ends before it begins”?
To give you two (and there are more) examples:
Revelation 11:7-11: “And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.”
These witnessing saints were brutally killed – in this cameo of the final battle.
Then, Zechariah 14:1-3, the prophet also talking of the final battle:
“Watch, for the day of the LORD is coming when your possessions will be plundered right in front of you! I will gather all the nations to fight against Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the population will be taken into captivity, and the rest will be left among the ruins of the city.
“Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as he has fought in times past.”
The apocalyptic genre often uses a "symbolic vocabulary" to depict the realities it speaks of.
I couldn't find any of your poetry that wasn't for sale. Nothing of mine is for sale (the Amazon book costs only what they charge for publishing it – I get no royalties). Here's a digital book of poems (I published it in hardcopy myself), THE WRITING ON THE WALL. bit.ly/2MyBmrR
The archive of the Alliterative revival has linked to some of mine:
https://alliteration.net/poets/lschaubert/
I can't tell you how this post has lingered in my mind, Lance. I think of it every day.
Thanks Barbara, grateful you let me know. Share it around!
Just wanted to say, I took a class on Tolkien in college and reading On Fairy Stories changed both my worldview on life and on fantasy. And you're right. Modern fantasy is fun and cool in its storytelling and ~realism~, but at some point, we lose the point of Tolkien's fantasy, of imagining a better world rather than reimagining our rather poor one. I thought it was interesting that you describe it as beyond the fourth age, rather than a return to the end of the third and the War of the Ring. We have indeed moved past the pastoral simplicity of the hobbits and nobility of Men, and going back to that, while it seems idyllic, is futile -- we are a different society, in a different time, and a different place globally. But there is always, always a possibility that goodness - in whatever form - will prevail. It reminds me of the concept of the Kali Yuga in Hinduism -- an era of darkness after three previous eras of slowly eroding goodness (sound familiar?) that will ultimately end the world as we know it, but then and only then can a new world be born. If I were to write fantasy, that's what I would want it to be. I hope (because, of course, there's always hope) to see a rise in what you said -- bylines of empathy, wisdom, and courage, stories that no longer feel it necessary to expose the worst of the world (a necessary endeavor certainly 20 years ago, but only demoralizing at this point) but instead reimagine it for the better.
Hey thanks for the comment, Meia. It's a wonderful piece on multiple fronts — it's really a Hegelian synthesis of both modernism and fantasy in a way that neither literary fiction nor modern fantasy fully appreciate. It truly feels as if it came from another world entirely when you look at the modern landscape of fiction, generally (some pockets exist in self-published or small press sectors and Sanderson's doing something interesting that most folks don't yet fully appreciate).
Return is insufficient as the future move must entail our experience now. Otherwise we cease to be entirely. We can't go back, but what we can do is purify our false selves that our true selves might be made manifest. So yes, the "fourth" age would be that dark age of men. But a fifth?
Do you have the myth handy for that piece on Hinduism?
And what of your own fantasy: what are you working on?
I've just started getting into Sanderson's works, and I am already impressed with how in-depth the entire world, let alone universe, is! I'm definitely curious to see more. As for the Kali Yuga stuff, I don't think there's a single source, but it's referenced multiple times in different texts like the Vedas and Mahabharata -- this seems like a good source: https://medium.com/@aresynshaw.work/the-4-yugas-the-cosmic-ages-of-the-world-1f2f7fa0eb74
And as for my own fantasy...honestly, nothing concrete yet! I sat down and made a map a few months ago via dropping rice randomly on a piece of poster paper. We'll see where it goes, but I definitely don't want to do something in the grimdark realm. Unfortunately balancing the line between realistic and grim, as well as optimistic versus naive, seems very daunting! How about yourself?
It's certainly a taste thing. I know good friends who love Martin and dislike Sanderson — I do think Martin writes better prose, better scenes, better subtlety of things often missed the first go around. So some of it's a taste thing on that front. Here I was talking predominantly about the philosophy undergirding the work — and I don't know that I agree entirely with Sanderson either, but it's a breath of fresh air, for sure.
Thanks for the link.
You should! Use something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhT9GVh0vQ
And get started. Check back when you're into it and let me know how it's going.
Most recent update on my projects was here:
https://lanceschaubert.substack.com/p/if-you-replied-to-these-emails-project
I see what you mean -- what's Sanderson's undergirding philosophy? And yes, I will get started and see where it goes! Excited to see your work, too.
Well he's Mormon which... I mean, I'm not, but there are certainly worse philosophies out there. And as Gnostic as it can be at times, our society could use a Gnostic correction in a way.
He also seems to be pulling from something like The Discarded Image. So I'm keeping an eye on that.
Awesome, have fun with it. Happy to send you past books if you're unfamiliar.